16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. You cant speak in tongues? Youre not one of us. Galatians 5:22-23. *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. It is the normalization of sociopathy. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Please call upon Jesus today, you will be very glad you did! What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. Or (referring to Joseph) how to achieve your dreams. love to hear that sermon. He told me Tuesday that he has every right to campaign for repeal in a sermon. Reveal the conspiracy please. But guess what else happened? He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. Actually are pews still in general use? I felt like an idiot after I said that. It is anguish because i love them, and see the pain of all three of them. His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. But we rarely hear about that. Who has harmed you? Its also called community in a box. Forgiveness does not address that issue at all. The point of closed systems is to keep them closed. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. Not a fan but many are. Lindell doesnt have a real active blog, his third from last entry is titled: If others havent heard this song yet, give it a try and see what you think. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. Actually are pews still in general use? I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. I view it as wisdom. i think bills reply echos mine mostly, if your question is what church should look like if we are all clergy. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. Dont you want to be a part of that? Bob, I loved your comment. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. Che was tots adorbs. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. Finding out who and what Robert Morris really is inherently taints many others on the religious and political right, thereby making me question all my prior values and decisions. He spends the remainder of the sermon talking about Saul who became Paul and forgiveness. I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. You are doing exactly what you accuse the bloggers of. Some of the current worship songs that I hear dont do too much for me. Reverend Mark Driscoll has sinned before many witness, this had been profusely and laboriously documented, and is to be rebuked before all. Interestingly, he chose the title of his message to be 'Paul the Forgiven' and goes on to say that Paul has a name change because of a life change. to confer grace through the sacraments. we see this in culture and politics all the time. . Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. Then you can better understand the depths of this deception. Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. Just some thoughts to consider. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. I would argue the reverse. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? Sex abuse inquiry to hear how churches responded to allegations against his father, Frank Houston, and two other men. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? I agree that if the object is to fill seats and keep the money flowing in, then Driscoll and the others are doing a great job. You have a holy responsibility to lead your flock in truth and light yet you are deliberately misleading them. sheep are watching and wolves coming. I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. There was another couple along with us who knew a bit more about him and we absolutely amazed that this man, who could have been an elder, could not see through the act which you described so perfectly. You are so spot on. Plus I put up some Mozart for you guys. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. everything that happened at the cross was prophesied about long before Jesus was crucified, one propesy: Psalm 69:20-21 To tell, perhaps? Sometimes life circumstances have to kind of help people do the right thing. Albuquerque Blue wrote: But it would be encouraging if they did. Driscoll does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a preacher. Dont miss the title of Lindells May 16, 2014 blog entry: I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. As the one did previously now the other is going thru the hoops of treatment and being checked on by outside agencies because being around the child is worth it. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. Good point as far as it goes. There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. Church Discipline There is no glorifying God in any of that. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. stephen is suffering for doing right. Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. He. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. Just volunteers. He cannot or will not go back to school to become a plumber or a dentist or what ever, so he has to figure out how to get back into the Christian preaching / book writing / convention circuit. Its kind of like that movie Winters Bone where the communities are closed to a fault. Its so weird and twisted, but people eat it up. Seems odd that Robert, Tom Lane and Jimmy Evans need to be pounding their book sales so hard when they are all getting raptured in the next 3.5 years. your post is so right LT, the whole post, and it really needs to be said again and again. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. Clear All United States - All Cities Something has gone seriously wrong in Mega-Land and it aint just thinking about having MD speak at one of their conferences. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. peaceable disposition. Seriously? Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father, but through Me -Jesus, all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!. Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. All 6,115 words of it. If it is all about numbers and money it would be a wild ride for about five or ten years till it crashes. Im honored that Marks here so I dont want anybody reading what Im saying as some kind of disclaimer or apology. As the CEO of MHC was MD completely unaware of what was going on with the Global Fund? Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. . Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. You sure would think so, but to quote H.L. How about the demon trials? But we dont know yet for sure. . (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. You make an interesting comparison. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. @ Gus: . The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. @ LT: Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? I'm in on that. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. Are you not voting? Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. I think many. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. ", Meanwhile, here's what was communicated 'Down Under' "Houston, we have a problem.". Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. Bingo. You will hear the Velcro bar/connect center mentioned several times in each service. Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. Oops, last comment of mine was supposed to link to this comment. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. The church had 15 locations in five states. this is even a bigger bad root than the bad root of complimentarianism and authorityism. Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. He further states: A door was closed to who I was and a door was opened to who I became. I can't help but wonder whether Driscoll is talking about Paul or himself. your comments are great. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. I am someone special, like Jesus and Paul. Pouring what, exactly? So I can see why some churches would want him on board. You said again twice. But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. Which is all to say that if he was a wanted man back in Jerusalem and the believers did not trust him, then some of the credit for his going away for a few years goes to those who did not let him just keep on keeping on, despite some abrupt lateral entry into proto-christianity. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. LOL! Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. James River is a mega church. It is an issue of protecting other people. He later boasts that he did not immediately go get instruction from the apostles in Jerusalem, but he does not say exactly why. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. The bible sayz dat soon the darkness is coming when no one will be listening. It really bothers me that he seems to profane things still. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. Sovereign Grace Ministries We would love for you to join us for a service. @ Bridget: They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. I recently darkened the doors of a very small church in another city. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. I wish just one person would have spoken up sooner. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. I dont think he would agree he is doing well at all. Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? Now the floodgates will open wide now that his massive deception becomes public knowledge in Australia and the UK. Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses . He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. Thanks for your informative comment. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. . Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Hosting a giant event without distancing or masking is irresponsible and insulting to the people on the front lines of this crisis, most especially the health care workers who are overwhelmed. Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. The movie was sooooooo good. But what does that mean in the larger picture? Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. And how many know you cant not everything you read on the internet is true, and so as a church I just I just know this, as a church we want to be careful that we dont ever put ourself in a situation where were shooting the wounded, and you know God has laid Mark and Grace upon Debbie and my heart repeatedly over the last several months. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community so long as you bow to him and stay on his good size. Its much harder to leave that way. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. Well-meaning people are attempting to put Jesus in structures that do not foster the expression of his life in the saints. i found it impossible to take advantage of people, i found that if i hurt someone even unententionally i couldnt sleep until i made it right. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. The emails we received were similarly written. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. Not much time has passed since he stepped down. @ sam: Do you know his history and what he represents? It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious. What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) Its a professional, corporate institutional model based on an unbiblical clergy/ laity distinction. He was defended and protected by his peers and they even tried to help him plant a church here and give it street cred but his family of churches franchise is over for him and he is lucky if 50 people show (mostly SGM followers and family) up for his church in a room at the Marriot not far from where I live. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. Some people believe that God put them there. pastors that use their position to wreck peoples lives arent expected to go to jail or show tears publicly and thats ok if its not warranted but it is very reasonable for people to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them to go back to influencing the lives of people. he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. Marks of a bully, and definitely not qualifications of an elder. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. Or is it just a GW thing? luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. "It was clear to me that Mark's attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.". My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. You dont find out about some of the really bad stuff until you are pretty deep into it. vengance is where you make someone pay. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, and that other pastor has a history of patterns of behavior and teachings that are destructive it is wise to ask pastor 1 if he has checked him out before he promotes him. If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who?